It really tickles me to death the ongoing effort of stripping Confucius and his school from the Yijing, like some kind of taint soiling the work. As if one should wash the mouth after uttering his name... As it is, the Yijing IS a Confucian Classic. The Zhouyi is another story. From whatever old extant exegesis we have available, that school has been commenting the Yi (Zhouyi) from a time earlier than the oldest version of the Yi found thus far (Mawangdui). There is no Yijing without the Confucian School. Furthermore, what we have received is the Yijing, not the Zhouyi proper, which remains a mystery other than a few quotes found in old history records like the Zuo Zhuan. We do have a proposed separation of the Zhouyi text, what it perhaps looked like, within the received YIJING itself, which comes from what classical school?? Yes, the Confucian School. So, if we follow that train of thought, how do we know the whole thing, all the text received and attributed to the original Zhouyi--and we are talking about the text here--, isn't a Confucian fabrication in its entirety? Can we trust them to tell us that the Tuan Ci and Yao Ci is the original Zhouyi part of the Yijing but distrust them in the parsing of the text? So, my point is, dismissing the received parsing of the text because of the possibility of it being a biased pipe-dream of a bunch of Neo-Confucians under the orders of the Kangxi Emperor, is in itself a biased, non-objective view, in the opposite direction, of their work. As I've said, or at least implied, I'm not a revisionist regarding the received Chinese text of the Yijing. And I'm not because if we are going to revise the text, then we have to revise the whole classic, not only the attributed Zhouyi part of it. At that point we may as well realize to be holding water in our hands as the reality of the Yijing itself will shift. Mind you, I'm the first one in line to bury my head in obscure books, searching for the historical origins of the text, however, at some point I realized that I had to separate the material studied from the received text as they are, although related, completely separate entities. On the other hand, anyone is free to play with the text. Just don't expect serious arguments of interpretation based on the free-handling of it as it will be only a game...

Like any earnest and sincere student, try to remain hidden until you are ready to appear in the field, or the Kung Fu version to ‘descend the mountain’ (xia shan), so to speak, to enter into discourses with likeminded fellows. (Think of the first and second lines of Qian / The Creative) If our basics and foundations are not strong enough, we could be easily influenced by incorrect teachings of others in the World Wide Web or by some New Age translations.

If change can be so easily understood or seen, the holy sages need not write down its patterns and images in the Book of Changes (Yijing, the Yi) for posterity. Neither would the great Chinese sages, the wise and the learned, need to devote much time in studying this ancient Chinese classic, if it was not other than profound.

Technorati Tags: I Ching, Yijing

He found comfort in reading philosophical and religious writings, including the Bible, Buddhist classics and the I Ching, an ancient Chinese text also called the Book of Changes. He also tried to keep in touch with what was happening “outside.”

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Hi, I found this site by pure coincidence and being mentioned in Sam Crane’s blog. Regarding this particular ‘junzi’ discussion, I’m very surprised that no mention whatsoever has been made regarding such concept, and it its numerous appearances, in the text of the Yijing. This is a subject of innumerable discussions regarding the proper translation of the term among serious Yixue students. I believe Richard Wilhelm, in his translation of the classic, spoiled our collective Western mindset by translating it as “Superior Man”. A more contemporary translation among Yixue students gears towards the consensus of “Jun1 zi3″ meaning “noble one” and/or “young noble,” both of these carrying its own interpretation depending on the context of the hexagram, one being used as an adjective and the other as a noun. Of course, we thread on thin ice when trying to properly translate a term with a very ancient conceptual use. It isn’t as simple as picking up a dictionary and looking for the characters’ meaning. We must try to discern its original contextual meaning, going back more than 2500 years. In the overall text of the Yijing (as opposed to the bare Zhouyi) somebody recently made an interesting observation and pointed to an otherwise obvious distinction–and thus hard to notice–between the term appearing in the Yaoci of many hexagram lines and the term appearing in the Da Xiang:

quote
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The second is surely the confucian «person of noble character», but the JunZi of which you’re speaking is earlier and less perfect. (the one in the Yaoci; my note)
unquote
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All the best and I’ll bookmark your site.
Luis

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According to Eli Stone, the hotshot San Francisco lawyer whose vivid hallucinations may be coded messages from a higher power, some clarity would be helpful: “God needs to be a little less oblique.” This, of course, has been a plaint of saints and sinners ever since our species first looked into its own entrails. Why must oracles reply in riddles? How come the undead so often sound like Carlos Castaneda? What if we threw the I Ching in the wrong direction? From Calista Flockhart in Ally McBeal to Jennifer Love Hewitt in Ghost Whisperer, thin young women in very short skirts hear voices, see visions, and get hysterical. All of this could have been avoided with plain English. As Little Baron Snorck von Chulnt explained in Louis Zukofsky’s comic novel Little, “If you want me to understand, you’d better speak in a different anguish.”

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Bear with me on this. She did make me think about the cartoons and I wish I had more feedback like hers. My goal is that the cartoons work like epiphanies with somebody that has some knowledge of the Yijing; an instant recognition. If they don't work like that, then I must be doing something wrong and assuming too much on the level of knowledge needed to read them. Obviously, I do make them to have fun with them myself, but if that was the only goal, they would be kept private. By sharing them, I want to share the "why" I think they are funny. Thus, I must figure out how can I best make them readable by all.

I certainly thank Jane for being candid. It show that she is a very real lady.

The one thing that had me thinking is the comments attached to my link:

A light hearted site by Luis Andrade, featuring his Yi-cartoons and an accompanying Yi-blog. Seems to be geared toward a small "in" group of Yi-aficionados. Most of his cartoons are over my head, but it is great to se someone having fun with Yijing and I say, "More power to him"

Makes me wonder about my assumptions regarding my target "audience"... I realize that to really "get" the cartoons a reader must know something about the Yijing; however, they should not fly "over the head" of fellow Yi-aficionados, specially not of the caliber of published Yi-aficionados. The cartoons are designed, albeit humorously, based upon the text of the Yijing and its implied concepts. They are conceived as "dialogues" between hexagrams because I believe one way to conceptualize the transition from an "obtained hexagram" and a "resulting hexagram," the one that is created once the moving lines of the first are mutated to their opposite, is a conversation between the two. This concept is a perfect fit to find humor in the Yi. Mind you, this is a very personal concept and point of view and perhaps is not shared by all fellow aficionados. This, I accept and respect; however, once the concept is clear, even if it is not accepted, the cartoons should be easy to understand with a little knowledge of the Yijing.

The cartoons are also conceived as an invitation to find their "punch line" by whetting the curiosity of the readers, specially novices, and having them study the Yijing seriously enough to pass over the "fun hill" of divination and find the deeper layers of this timeless classic.

As for inspiration, I find it everywhere. One source is the Yi forums I attend and goof around, specially Clarity, which is where I spend most of my time. There is never a shortage of questions and combinations of hexagrams to find hilarious and cartoonish "situations". Those people yes, I consider them to be my "in" crowd, but, the goal, wish and hope, is that the "out" crowd finds a way "in" by studying the classic deeper.

One of the bad things about the Web is that one becomes a mercenary reader--well, we should not blame the Web entirely, deep down, all of us are mercenary readers... Much to read and little time to do it. What is worst is that all of this subtracts from whatever time we have to write our own stuff. Where did the month of April go? It isn't lack of ideas but, one cannot read and write at the same time. Perhaps you can take notes about something you are reading, but write, write, it is an exclusive acitivity. Days go by and weeks are compressed in hours.

Something I wanted to write for a while has to do with one of the great classics in human history, the I Ching. (If perhaps you've been living under a rock and don't know what the I Ching is and why it is considered a "classic", don't be lazy and search for information) What I wanted to comment about, and make clear, is what the book it is not: A system that lends itself, or caves in, to dogmatism. (in the first definition of the word: 1 : positiveness in assertion of opinion especially when unwarranted or arrogant)  Of course, the bad thing is that there will always be someone that believes he found the key and the truth behind the I Ching and will teach "his/her version", what he/she understands as truth. The danger is not for himself--each one of us understands the I Ching in a very personal way--but for those that are formed through the teachings of those that see things this way and wrap them in dogmas that do not exist.

For those that may want to get closer to the I Ching I have some advise: if you really want to objectively learn,  find your own materials, read at your discretion, use it and form your own conclusions. If after a few years of studying and using the I Ching (I repeat, "a few years") you believe to have reached the limits of your comprehension and need to advance in your studies, it is always possible to find somebody that has more experience and other points of view to share. Try to stay away from those that call themselves "Masters of the I Ching", in any language. Those, in and by themselves, do not exist. Those that name themselves "Masters", from the very first moment, are throwing out the window the humbleness needed to comprehend something about the I Ching.

With a little shame, since it can be interpreted as lack of modesty to mention years of study and experience, and to assert what I'm sharing, I must say that after some 33 years of study and constant use of the I Ching, and having a whole library dedicated to it, I still feel like an infant regarding my understanding of the vastness of this classic. Yes, I can talk and write extensively about it; explain as many techniques are used to consult the I Ching; how to personally interpret answers to consultaions; explain rules and temporal parameters; what kind of philosophies have been born and formed based on it; etc., etc., but, erudition, in the case of the I Ching, it is not synonymous with "Mastery." The same way it applies to me, it applies to all.

To the beginners: be advised and avoid falling in dogmatic traps.  

Just before some smart-assed commentator throws the "dogmatic" ball back at me for asserting things that can be construed as such, let me clarity that my only "dogma" is to eradicate them all and invite each and every one of you to form your own, independent opinions about the Yijing, sans "Masters." If that can indeed be construed as "dogmatic", so be it.

Technorati Tags: dogmas, I Ching, meditations, Yijing

"When I first heard of the news, I searched Google as follow: Vonnegut "I Ching"

Not surprising, this came out on top...

Sam Crane posted this, this morning:

The Tao-esque quality of Vonnegut's absurdity and satire, comes through in this excerpt of a summary of Slaughterhouse Five (Wikipedia is not my favorite source, but it will do here in a pinch):

This illogicality of human nature is brought up with the climax of the book. Ironically the climax occurs not with the bombing of Dresden, but with the execution of a man who committed a petty theft. In all of this horror, death, and destruction, so much time is taken on the punishment of one man. Yet, the time is still taken, and Vonnegut seems to take the outside opinion of the bird asking, "Poo-tee-weet?"

We can hear Chuang Tzu reply:

People think we're different from baby birds cheeping, but are we saying any more than they are? (21)

Rest in peace.

Luis"

Now, I find that er4 is a great word to debate semantically. Here is something interesting:

English Senses For: er4 (貳)
in ancient China - a deputy / to serve as a deputy / to suspect / to doubt / to distrust / changeable / an elaborate form of " two "used in writing checks etc. to prevent forgery - / to repeat / double ness / a Chinese family name.

29.4 (from Steve Marshall's Zhouyi transcription)

六四 樽酒簋貳。用缶。納約自牖。終无咎。

Now, look at the parsing above; if we take this as the correct parsing, then we have a four distinct verses here. Thus, er4 is part of the first verse...

The meaning I like most above is: [U]" an elaborate form of " two "used in writing checks etc. to prevent forgery - / to repeat / double ness /".[/U] From this, I depart from both Brad's (number two, meaning a numeral) and Ewald's (distrust) interpretations. If I was translating this on my own, I would see er4 as a way to "make sure; be assured of; doble-check something is accomplished --i.e. check door locks more than once, etc.--; surely; in a sure manner; with assurance; without doubt; etc." An off-the-wall interpretation for "er4" could be as part of explaining "compulsive behaviour" by repeatedly doing something. Now, notice that my interpretation is, somewhat, a combination of "two", as numeral, and "distrust". It is derived from both.

I have other unorthodox semantic interpretations for the characters of the first verse.

One of the meanings for 樽 is "lush, luxuriant." I like that. A lot. From there I can derive a meaning of "fine, luxurious". This interpretation fits, IMVHO, like a glove with the next character, 酒, which is translated as wine or liquor. Thus, I would interpret "樽 酒" as "fine wine", "precious wine", meaning a wine that is only used for especial occasions or purposes (i.e. "holy wine", etc.)

The next character, "簋," is very interesting, contextually so. Its meaning being a "basket of bamboo" (bowl, if you want to stretch the meaning to other "hollow container"). But not just any "bamboo basket" (or bowl) it is a special basket used in sacrifices, offerings and/or special occasions, like in a feast. Its use something akin to the bronze "ding", but in a wooden version.

Again, if this parsing is correct --and thus its contextual meaning--, "er4" I would translate "樽酒簋貳。" as:

"Making certain (貳) the finest (樽) {or proper/correct} wine/liquor (酒) goes in the sacrificial basket {vessel} (簋)"

Of course, I know that above I transposed characters, etc., but it is a totally "right-brained" translation of the verse....

Luis

Hi all,

This is the little surprise I mentioned the other day in Clarity. I've been compiling links to post here, with the little time I have to serious research (for bugging others here I seem to have all the time in the world, but is not true... :D)

I've been digging on this for almost two weeks and I advise anybody to do this if you can think of authors and commentators on the Yi. Google has a great service where they are scanning whole libraries and making those texts available to the public. In cases where the books are rare and old and there is no copyright, the whole texts are downloadable in PDF format, what they call "Full View" books.

What started my quest into Google Books are two books I ordered recently in Spanish. Two translations of the Yi that are available in French (the original translation from the Chinese to a Western language) and in Spanish. Oddly enough, although the authors are quoted in any places, such as the Wilhem/Baynes version, and were contemporary with Legge and earlier than Wilhelm in their translations, there are  no translations I could find in English... The authors are not even mentioned in Brad's Bibliography. They are Charles de Harlez and Yuan Kuang. Doing a search in Clarity, there is nothing about Harlez and for Yuan Kuang there is only one entry by Mary Halpin, here, which was a cross-post from Midaughter. That was more than two years ago.

I wasn't even aware of the post until I started searching, but, one of the things that prompted me to find more information about these two authors is that they both believe, although with slight differences amongst them, that the "Moving Lines" of an hexagram are not the 9's and 6's (Old Yangs and Yins) but the 7's and 8's (Young Yangs and Yins). The rationale behind this is that it is the "Young" lines the ones that have the potential for change since they are still growing and gathering energy while the "Old" lines are, by the definition of old and frailty, too rigid for change. Raymond de Becker, the compiler of Harlez works in French under the book "Méthode pratique de divination chinoise par le Yi-King" (Paris, 1950), finds this point of view about changing lines more natural a logical than the one given by Wilhelm and other translations (he quotes Wilhelm in the original German version as when his French book came out the Wilhelm/Baynes was not yet available...)

Well now, that's a debate to tackle in Clarity!! Makes you wonder if we all had it upside down in our interpretations and the derived hexagrams are completely different from what we are used to... Obviously, the consensus is with the present "status quo", but what if... :)

Now, going back to Google Books, I found several treasures in my quest for more information on this subject. One of them is "The Oldest Book of the Chinese, The Yh-King, and it Authors" by A. Terrien de Lacouperie. This book was published in 1892! It is available nowhere outside some brick-and-mortar libraries or rare books bookstores. Now it is for all to grab in digital format. That link will take you the the page where you can download the whole thing and print.

Other links I found with downloadable information (you'll be downloading the actual facsimile of the original books!) are as follow, many are in French:

The Yi King of the Chinese as a book of divination and philosophy[/URL] from the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland; published in 1884.

Sacred Literature, 1905

The Sacred Books and Early Literature of the East: with historical surveys of the chief writings... 1917.

Outlines of the History of Religion: To the Spread of the Universal Religions. 1896

James Legge, Missionary and Scholar, 1905

Figures Symboliques du Yi-King (Journal Asiatique), 1897

The Sacred Books of China: The Texts of Confucianism, 1899 (This is the facsimile of the original version of James Legge's translation)

The Religions of Japan from the Dawn of History to the Era of Meiji

Le Yi-King, au VII siecle avant, J.C. (Journal Asiatique), 1893

Chinese Philosophy: An Exposition of the Main Characteristic Features of Chinese Thought, 1898

Histoire ancienne de l'Orient (continuée par E. Babelon), 1881

Charles de Harlez

A search of "de Harlez" in Full View books

What I did was to search in Google Books using the names I found in the bibliography of some of those old works. I invite all those interested to do the same and perhaps you can find things I haven't had the time to find.

I hope you find this useful,

Luis

I love rock music, it makes me feel alive, it lets me in on the secret that I'm not alone in the world. The I Ching says about rock festivals: "The sacred music and the splendor of the ceremonies aroused a strong tide of emotion that was shared by all hearts in unison, and that awakened a consciousness of the common origin of all creatures. In this way disunity was overcome and rigidity dissolved. A further means to the same end is co-operation in great general undertakings that set a high goal for the will of the people; in the common concentration on this goal, all barriers dissolve."